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Old 09-15-2011
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grbears grbears is offline
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Default Taking Harrisburg

Any advice on how best to attack Harrisburg? I am hitting it from 2-3 hexes with Determined Attacks, but seems with the Reinforcement command in the northern hex, I just take casualties without inflicting much. I am probing with a CAV and INF into the northern hex to try to disrupt his Reinforcement of the southern hex from these units, but not sure if there is a better approach.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-15-2011
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caledonia caledonia is offline
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Default harrisburg

good luck, if you've ever looked at the troops in Harrisburg you'd know that there are 15K stationed there. that's one reason I really don't fear a southern advance there... and if you did manage to take it your losses and ffd% would amount to... a "Phyrric victory".
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Old 09-15-2011
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It has been done in our previous playtests. The only hint I'll give is that attacking 15K troops across a bridge is suicide.

Jeff
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Old 09-15-2011
RiseAgain RiseAgain is offline
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Yeah, not attacking across the bridge; marched up through York and Columbia and have encircled the city. However, with the Reinforcement commands having the effect they have and seemingly not being able to Reinforce your troops in an attack (only able to gain a benefit from this in defense), the deck seems really stacked against you. Also, don't believe there is any benefit from surrounding/outflanking/encircling an opponent with the Reinforcement rules as they are. I've attacked a hex surrounded on 5 sides and due the Reinforcement rules, you still end up with a series of 4 on 8 attacks rather than 20 units vs. 8 in a single battle. Consideration needs to be given to having the Reinforcement command work on offense as well. Also, need greater consideration to encircling an enemy. If you've ever read "Lost Triumph: Lee's Real Plan at Gettysburg" and studied the battle of Austerlitz, you can see the power to be had by engaging a force from the front while simultaneously hitting them from the rear. Oh, what would have really happened if JEB Stuart had made it passed Custer to hit at the same time as Pickett's charge?
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Old 09-15-2011
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Which game RiseAgain? I'll take a look our game logs. A battle should naturally grow from a surrounded hex into a 20 vs 8 battle. What most players have a hard time getting used to is the fact that in our turns all players orders are processed simultaneously and the fact that moving units across hexes takes time. So if you are moving units across a couple of hexes on an attack they may not all reach the target hex in time for the battle. If you are attempting to dislodge a huge force like the Militia in Harrisburg it will take a lot of troops and several well timed attacks.
Also I should mention that the "Reinforce" order works for attack as well as defend in that a unit with that order will assist in any battle within a 1 hex radius, so I imagine what's happening is that your attacking units are targeting a hex more than 1 away from the reinforcing units. Hopefully that makes sense (this is hard to explain without graphics)
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Old 09-15-2011
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well I've been listening. and I gather that reinforcing attacking colomns is pointless; is this so? I wondered about that.
I don't mind the advantages gained by defense as defense is naturally the strongest position not discounting the disadvantages of an eventual seige and loss of mobility.
all said and done, harrisburg is a tough nut to crack. it has the advantage of defense, but more importantly an attacking force has nessesarily traveled at a minimum of 100 miles( interstate 81 wasn't there). Most of the times I've seen players try to take harrisburg they use the troopds from hagerstown that start the game w/ diminished FFD%. So, buy the time they get to Harrisburg most of their brigades are down 30-40% or more....aand this does not take into account the long round-a- bout trip through colombia.
now.. this brings us to a discussion of artillery... jeff I have some thoughts.. but dinner is ready.. so I'll hit you w/ that later..
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Old 09-15-2011
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No, its not pointless, its just tricky because its all about timing and positioning. It really becomes useful in huge battles where units are already clumped and they are just going to spend a few turns bashing on each other.
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Old 09-15-2011
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so you are saying that there IS an advantage to reinforcing an attacking column....and will this advantage carry through if the defending units crumble and the attackers move forward.... provided you follow with the reinforcing units?
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Old 09-15-2011
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Yes as long as the battle takes place no more than 1 hex away.

The great thing about the reinforce order is that units that are reinforcing can support an unlimited amount of times within the turn. Where the attacker may be stopped by an "Engagement" or "Battle" (Engagement costs 2 movement points, and a Battle consumes all movement points) the reinforcing units can continue to assist in other battles (within its one hex radius)
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