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  #1  
Old 11-23-2010
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mesadmin3 mesadmin3 is offline
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Default Goals for the CSA

The overarching goal of Lee's invasion of the North is not the destruction of The Army of the Potomac but the destruction of the will of Lincoln and the North to continue to pay the heavy toll of the Union blood and treasure being expended on the war. That said, as the invader the CSA has many more operational targets than the USA (** Please note that the following values are subject to change):
  1. Washington - 800 pts/turn - 8000 pts for capture (1 time only)
  2. Baltimore - 200 pts/turn - 3000 pts for capture (1 time only)
  3. Harrisburg - 200 pts/turn - 5000 pts for capture (1 time only)
  4. Alexandria - 200 pts/turn - 2000 pts for capture (1 time only)
  5. York - 100 pts/turn - 1000 pts for capture (1 time only)
  6. Columbia - 100 pts/turn - 1000 pts for capture (1 time only)
While attempting to hold key defensive positions (low political value targets):
  1. Harpers Ferry - 20 pts/turn
  2. Winchester - 20 pts/turn
  3. Culpepper - 20 pts/turn
And since the USA can more easily absorb the loss of soldiers the CSA is at a 2.5:1 disadvantage on troop losses.
  1. CSA causality inflicted - 1 pt
  2. USA causality inflicted - 2.5 pts
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2014
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michaelbounds michaelbounds is offline
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Amen to that!
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2014
Noon-Kah Noon-Kah is offline
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Default Goals?

The idea that the Confederate objectives in the east for 1863 did not include the idea of destroying the Army of the Potomac is not one which I agree.

Nothing would have demoralized the Union more than having this army destroyed in the field, thus ensuring a longer war.

Lee could have, as Longstreet advised, declined to accept a major battle at Gettysburg, and have gone on to ravage Pennsylvania.

Yet, he chose to fight. This demonstrates conclusively that Lee's objective was to destroy the Union army in the field.

Our "board" does not include Richmond, although it is only a few miles south of the areas of Virginia that are shown. This, of course, was the most strategic object for the Union to seize, and the most important mission of the Army of Northern Virginia to defend.

One must not forget that Lee's "invasion" was essentially nothing more than a raid in force. After all, can you imagine that the ANV would abandon the defense of Richmond indefinitely? Is it possible that the Confederate high command believed they could remain at Harrisburg and Columbia fending off attacks from the south on the Susquehanna river line. Just how, exactly, would the ANF be sustained in the field with the Union forces astride every possible route of re-supply?

I also strongly disagree with the idea that one Reb was worth 2.5 Yanks.
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Old 10-13-2014
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mesadmin3 mesadmin3 is offline
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The values are only there in order to balance out the system dynamics of the game. We spent quite a lot of time ensuring that both sides are capable of victory. The 2.5:1 ratio allows us to balance things such that the CSA cannot guarantee victory simply by "touching" Washington.

C63 is designed for users to play out scenarios of Lee's invasion of the North. Richmond is intentionally left out of this game as it would be fairly easy for the USA to capture since we begin play with Lee's invasion already underway. Any changes to Maps and OOB (order of battle), or other features (like EVERS Pontoons) would be quite a large undertaking that we simply cant afford to undertake right now. We have plans to include game variants that will allow for other scenarios to be played, but for now C63 is what it is (warts and all)

Jeff
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2014
e721420 e721420 is offline
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While I agree with much of what Noon-Kah points out, I play this game for the Game System. For me, it is irrelevant that the back story takes place on the American continent in 1863. In fact, I would prefer that it not be a re-play of that unfortunate American history. If I were King, I'd re-create the map uniquely each time the game starts and to be afforded the chance to develop new strategies for winning in different terrain, road nets and cities.
My two cents,
e
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2014
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mesadmin3 mesadmin3 is offline
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Already in the works e721420...
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2014
Noon-Kah Noon-Kah is offline
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It seems to me the best way to assure that the CSA does not win by simply "touching" DC is to change the criteria for earning the "objective" bonus rather than compensate for this potential flaw by introducing a victory condition (2.5 x 1) that has a negative effect on "operations" everywhere on the board.

It seems to my inexpwerienced eye that the UNION commander is encouraged to be reckless because even in disaster enough Southern casualties are incurred to cover up rather poor play.
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2014
e721420 e721420 is offline
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While I agree that the CSA role is challenging, I, and others, have won, or earned a draw with them. I donít believe that one union soldier was 2.5 times better than a CSA soldier. As we know from history the North had access to more replacements than the South. I donít know what the relative population of potential solders was, but Attrition was more a Union strategy. If my memory serves it was Grantís use of this strategy that eventually exhausted his opponents. And there were battles where Grant realized he lost more than he could afford.

From 20,000 feet it it would appear that the CSA should strive to inflict 2.5 times more casualties on his/her opponent in order to win/draw. "Good ground", local superiority, are some ways to do this as is making the newspapers by entering important Union cities; all can support victory.


It might be interesting to see what the ratio of wins is for the Union player vs. the CSA.
e
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2014
RELee RELee is offline
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I see the points Noon-Kah is coming from, but to tackle them this should be the goal of another game with a much wider scope and game scale.
Clearly to me, we are simulating the campaign from the moment in Washington panic is spreading and forcing Lincoln hand to shift the target from Richmond to the ANV.

Instead I'm puzzled by the lack of logistical constraints for Lee to protect a bit his lines of communication with Richmond. While ANV could forage very well North of the Potomac, I'm not sure if Lee just counted on Harper's Ferry Union depots (or elsewhere around the campaign theater), or he was gambling and not considering the problem.
ANV, beside the terrible losses sustained at Gettysburg, also, as far as I can remember from my reading, had their ammo wagons depleted as result of the big battle.
Let's assume Lee listened to Longstreet and on the third day either just remained defensive, or disengaged. I wander if the ammo status, would have driven him back to Virginia. In such case, strategically that could be considered an Union victory. Hence, if I'm right, somehow the game victory conditions should reflect this too.
On other hand, I can only imagine the efforts creating this game as it is now, must have comported and have nothing to complain about it. Just enjoying it
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